[Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

Hi,

I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like
to extend our mini-computer exhibit. We want to set up a VT100 running
RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I
need it to boot up RSTS from power up.

I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the
serial port ttyAMA0.

While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually,
RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc)
which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login. I
have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that
'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to
the terminal after the script ends.

Can anyone advise how to do it?

[Håkan Svenson]

You may use Expect http://expect.sourceforge.net/

/H

Post by Bryan Davies
Hi,
I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much
like to extend our mini-computer exhibit.   We want to set up a VT100
running RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start
unattended I need it to boot up RSTS from power up.
I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to
the serial port ttyAMA0.
While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator
manually, RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue
(Date, Time etc) which need to be answered before it is possible for a
User to login.  I have tried putting these responses in a Shell
script, and while that 'works' insofar as the boot process completes,
it doesn't return control to the terminal after the script ends.
Can anyone advise how to do it?
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Warren Young]

Post by Bryan Davies
While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually,
RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc)
which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login. I
have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that
'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to
the terminal after the script ends.
Can anyone advise how to do it?

SIMH has a send/expect feature pair which could probably express the
solution. See page 14 and 15 of the SIMH manual.

If this feature isn't powerful enough to do what you want, you can use the
tool that doubtless inspired these features, Expect
<https://wiki.tcl.tk/201>. You can run SIMH under Expect until you reach
the interactive point, then disconnect from the SIMH process
<https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/exploring-expect/9781565920903/ch17s05.html>,
allowing the terminal to control it.

[Mark Pizzolato]

Hi Bryan,

These prompts can all be addressed with EXPECT and SEND commands as part of your simulator startup configuration file. These commands are built into simh. See HELP EXPECT and HELP SEND. Appropriate values to answer date and time prompts can be part of the SEND text as well. See HELP DO VARIABLE_INSERTION.

Have fun.


- Mark

From: Simh [mailto:simh-***@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Davies
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 1:59 AM
To: ***@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Hi,

I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like to extend our mini-computer exhibit. We want to set up a VT100 running RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I need it to boot up RSTS from power up.

I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the serial port ttyAMA0.

While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually, RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc) which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login. I have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that 'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to the terminal after the script ends.

Can anyone advise how to do it?

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Post by Mark Pizzolato
Hi Bryan,
These prompts can all be addressed with EXPECT and SEND commands as part of your simulator startup configuration file. These commands are built into simh. See HELP EXPECT and HELP SEND. Appropriate values to answer date and time prompts can be part of the SEND text as well. See HELP DO VARIABLE_INSERTION.
Have fun.

Hello,

I run a simh instance with RSTS (BITXOT in HECNET) and this is the sequence I use to boot it. Add these lines to your simh .INI file and see if they work for you:

echo
;echo "boot rp" to boot RSTS/E
echo Booting RSTS/E from RP0 (DB0:)

EXPECT "Today\'s date?"
boot rp
SEND AFTER=10000 "%DATE_DD%-%DATE_MMM%-%DATE_YY%\r"
EXPECT "Current time?"
continue
SEND AFTER=10000 "%TIME_HH%:%TIME_MM%\r"
EXPECT "Start timesharing? <Yes>"
continue
SEND AFTER=10000 "\r"
EXPECT "Proceed with system startup? <YES> "
continue
SEND AFTER=10000 "\r"
continue


I hope it helps!

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
***@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES

[Bryan Davies]

Many thanks to all for the advice. Unfortunately I'm still not quite
there.

I have written an Expect script which runs Simh and sure enough responds to
the startup prompts. Unfortunately after it completes the terminal isn't
interactive anymore. Oddly it still echoes characters to the screen but
with no response - either from RSTS or Rasbian. If I open another
Terminal, PS shows me the pdp11 emulator running as another process but
tty1 is stuck in bash.

I have included a fork and disconnect at the end of the script as suggested
but to no effect.

Expect commands don't seem to work within Simh. Should they?

Post by Bryan Davies
Hi,
I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like
to extend our mini-computer exhibit. We want to set up a VT100 running
RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I
need it to boot up RSTS from power up.
I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the
serial port ttyAMA0.
While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually,
RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc)
which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login. I
have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that
'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to
the terminal after the script ends.
Can anyone advise how to do it?

[Paul Koning]

Many thanks to all for the advice. Unfortunately I'm still not quite there.

There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.

The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004. That is preserved across boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what seems like a valid date, that's used as the system date/time. This is why the more recent versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time if you do a restart (SHUTUP with restart) or use the BOOT command in INIT.

Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has a 10 second timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at that point.

So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in 1000, and time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT will pick up that date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start the OS.

RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)

For example:

$ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: d3b6018d
sim> d -d 1000 32004
sim> d -d 1002 720
sim> d -d 1004 30
sim> bo rq
?
Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018

RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L

04-Jan-02 12:00 PM


Start timesharing? <Yes> NO

I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience. You can see the correct date and time are picked up by INIT. Seconds are not displayed here but they are saved, so you can set them if you want to be that precise.

paul

[Bryan Davies]

Thanks Paul,

unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way
because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL. I did try
depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance
but it didn't work.

Rgds

Bryan

Post by Bryan Davies

Post by Bryan Davies
Many thanks to all for the advice. Unfortunately I'm still not quite

there.
There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.
The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004. That is preserved
across boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what seems
like a valid date, that's used as the system date/time. This is why the
more recent versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time if you do a restart
(SHUTUP with restart) or use the BOOT command in INIT.
Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has a 10
second timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at that point.
So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in 1000,
and time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT will pick up
that date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start the OS.
RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)
$ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: d3b6018d
sim> d -d 1000 32004
sim> d -d 1002 720
sim> d -d 1004 30
sim> bo rq
?
Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018
RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L
04-Jan-02 12:00 PM
Start timesharing? <Yes> NO
I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience. You can see
the correct date and time are picked up by INIT. Seconds are not displayed
here but they are saved, so you can set them if you want to be that precise.
paul

[Paul Koning]

Too bad, I thought at least presetting date/time would work that far back.

How about using a Telnet connection for the console, that's a SIMH feature. Then you can connect to it with a tool to drive the data to the console for startup, then once that's done disconnect and reconnect with a regular xterm window for user interaction. Or not -- you can have the user interaction on other terminal lines instead.

paul

Post by Bryan Davies
Thanks Paul,
unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL. I did try depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance but it didn't work.
Rgds
Bryan

[Jordi Guillaumes i Pons]

Forgive my top posting, I’m replying with my phone.

Consider using GNU screen. It’s scriptable and works really well.

Jordi Guillaumes Pons

Post by Paul Koning
Too bad, I thought at least presetting date/time would work that far back.
How about using a Telnet connection for the console, that's a SIMH feature. Then you can connect to it with a tool to drive the data to the console for startup, then once that's done disconnect and reconnect with a regular xterm window for user interaction. Or not -- you can have the user interaction on other terminal lines instead.
paul

Post by Bryan Davies
Thanks Paul,
unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL. I did try depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance but it didn't work.
Rgds
Bryan

_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Paul Koning]

Post by Bryan Davies
Thanks Paul,
unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL. I did try depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance but it didn't work.
Rgds
Bryan

You don't need to stick with V7 to show the CCL style user interface. That still works in the latest version. The difference is that DCL is the default UI, so a user who logs in will normally see the $ prompt, not the old "Ready" from BASIC.

But that too is easy to change. A one or two line login.com script can switch the user to BASIC, so after login a Ready prompt appears. Yes, you can get to DCL, but it isn't "in your face".

paul

[Bryan Davies]

Thank you Paul.

I now have V4 of Simh and V10.1 of RSTS so at least I'm up to date!

The date/time registers worked. Unfortunately, the start process is still
getting stuck; now at the 'Start timesharing? <Yes>' prompt. My system
doesn't have the 10 second timeout you describe here, although it DOES have
one on the later 'Proceed with system startup" prompt.

I have a vague memory (it's been 30 years!) of an auto restart flag in the
switch register & I'm wondering if you know about this. Or maybe the
problem is elsewhere.

I'd be grateful for any more ideas you have on the subject.

Bryan

Post by Bryan Davies

Post by Bryan Davies
Many thanks to all for the advice. Unfortunately I'm still not quite

there.
There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.
The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004. That is preserved
across boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what seems
like a valid date, that's used as the system date/time. This is why the
more recent versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time if you do a restart
(SHUTUP with restart) or use the BOOT command in INIT.
Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has a 10
second timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at that point.
So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in 1000,
and time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT will pick up
that date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start the OS.
RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)
$ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: d3b6018d
sim> d -d 1000 32004
sim> d -d 1002 720
sim> d -d 1004 30
sim> bo rq
?
Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018
RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L
04-Jan-02 12:00 PM
Start timesharing? <Yes> NO
I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience. You can see
the correct date and time are picked up by INIT. Seconds are not displayed
here but they are saved, so you can set them if you want to be that precise.
paul

[Johnny Billquist]

Bryan, I'm not understanding why the scripting capability in simh don't
seem to do it for you...

Johnny

Post by Bryan Davies
Thank you Paul.
I now have V4 of Simh and V10.1 of RSTS so at least I'm up to date!
The date/time registers worked.   Unfortunately, the start process is
still getting stuck; now at the 'Start timesharing? <Yes>' prompt.   My
system doesn't have the 10 second timeout you describe here, although it
DOES have one on the later 'Proceed with system startup" prompt.
I have a vague memory (it's been 30 years!) of an auto restart flag in
the switch register & I'm wondering if you know about this.   Or maybe
the problem is elsewhere.
I'd be grateful for any more ideas you have on the subject.
Bryan

Many thanks to all for the advice.   Unfortunately I'm still not quite there.

There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.
The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004.  That is preserved
across boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what
seems like a valid date, that's used as the system date/time.  This
is why the more recent versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time
if you do a restart (SHUTUP with restart) or use the BOOT command in
INIT.
Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has
a 10 second timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at
that point.
So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in
1000, and time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT
will pick up that date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start
the OS.
RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)
$ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta        git commit id: d3b6018d
sim> d -d 1000 32004
sim> d -d 1002 720
sim> d -d 1004 30
sim> bo rq
?
Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018
RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L
04-Jan-02 12:00 PM
Start timesharing? <Yes> NO
I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience.  You can
see the correct date and time are picked up by INIT.  Seconds are
not displayed here but they are saved, so you can set them if you
want to be that precise.
        paul
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Bryan Davies]

Thanks Paul.

Here is the .ini file and a copy of what I see on screen. I have left my
previous attempts at using EXPECT/SEND in place but commented out.

Bryan

Post by Bryan Davies
Thank you Paul.
I now have V4 of Simh and V10.1 of RSTS so at least I'm up to date!
The date/time registers worked. Unfortunately, the start process is

still getting stuck; now at the 'Start timesharing? <Yes>' prompt. My
system doesn't have the 10 second timeout you describe here, although it
DOES have one on the later 'Proceed with system startup" prompt.

Post by Bryan Davies
I have a vague memory (it's been 30 years!) of an auto restart flag in

the switch register & I'm wondering if you know about this. Or maybe the
problem is elsewhere.

Post by Bryan Davies
I'd be grateful for any more ideas you have on the subject.
Bryan

That's curious. Could you send me the SIMH configuration and the actual
output from your test run?
paul

[Mark Pizzolato]

The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.

I don’t have a V7 RSTS to test with and the V10 stuff I’ve got to test doesn’t prompt for the time of day, but seems to automatically detect the correct date and time. Leaving the EXPECT commands to answer these questions in the script doesn’t hurt.

When using EXPECT commands, you have to PRECISELY specify what is being matched. There is a difference between “<Yes>” and “<YES> “.


- Mark

From: Simh [mailto:simh-***@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Davies
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 11:04 AM
To: Paul Koning <***@comcast.net>; ***@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Thanks Paul.

Here is the .ini file and a copy of what I see on screen. I have left my previous attempts at using EXPECT/SEND in place but commented out.

Bryan

Post by Bryan Davies
Thank you Paul.
I now have V4 of Simh and V10.1 of RSTS so at least I'm up to date!
The date/time registers worked. Unfortunately, the start process is still getting stuck; now at the 'Start timesharing? <Yes>' prompt. My system doesn't have the 10 second timeout you describe here, although it DOES have one on the later 'Proceed with system startup" prompt.
I have a vague memory (it's been 30 years!) of an auto restart flag in the switch register & I'm wondering if you know about this. Or maybe the problem is elsewhere.
I'd be grateful for any more ideas you have on the subject.
Bryan

That's curious. Could you send me the SIMH configuration and the actual output from your test run?

paul

[Paul Koning]

Post by Mark Pizzolato
The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.

Thanks Mark.

Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original. I thought that the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes "only in part". The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing" prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into the official release.

So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use a modified init.sys. I can supply that to anyone who's interested.

paul

[Mark Pizzolato]

Hi Paul,

Just curios... How is RSTS v10 getting the date/time without prompting for it?


- Mark

From: Paul Koning
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 12:02 PM

On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato <***@infocomm.com<mailto:***@infocomm.com>> wrote:

The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.

Thanks Mark.

Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original. I thought that the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes "only in part". The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing" prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into the official release.

So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use a modified init.sys. I can supply that to anyone who's interested.

paul

[Bryan Davies]

It works! Many thanks to all who have assisted.

I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
startup prompts.

Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed it.

My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU. The Raspberry
Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the simulated OS isn't
'doing' anything. But it is nevertheless good enough for display
purposes. I will be installing it at http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation will be able to see how
computing was in the 'olden days'.


Regards to all,

Bryan.

Post by Mark Pizzolato
The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
Thanks Mark.
Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a
modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original. I thought that
the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes
"only in part". The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing"
prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into
the official release.
So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use a
modified init.sys. I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
paul

[Johnny Billquist]

Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?

And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Johnny

Post by Bryan Davies
It works! Many thanks to all who have assisted.
I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
startup prompts.
Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed it.
My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU. The Raspberry
Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the simulated OS isn't
'doing' anything. But it is nevertheless good enough for display
purposes. I will be installing it at
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation will be able to see how
computing was in the 'olden days'.
Regards to all,
Bryan.

Post by Mark Pizzolato
The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
Thanks Mark.
Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up

a

Post by Mark Pizzolato
modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original. I thought

that

Post by Mark Pizzolato
the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer

yes

Post by Mark Pizzolato
"only in part". The change to add a timeout on the "start

timesharing"

Post by Mark Pizzolato
prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it

into

Post by Mark Pizzolato
the official release.
So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to

use a

Post by Mark Pizzolato
modified init.sys. I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
paul

[Bryan Davies]

I think my problem was that I had put my EXPECT commands after the boot
(where they occur in the start dialogue) but they need to be set up
beforehand.

Also the revised .ini file now has the EXPECT/SEND/CONTINUE all on a single
line.

I've now added set cpu idle and that seems to cure the processor racing
issue.

I just need to get it all in a nice neat box, connect up he VT100, and
download some games and things for the guests to use.

Thanks again to all.

Bryan.

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also -
with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation
does?
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?
Johnny

Post by Bryan Davies
It works! Many thanks to all who have assisted.
I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
startup prompts.
Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed it.
My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU. The
Raspberry Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the
simulated OS isn't 'doing' anything. But it is nevertheless good enough
for display purposes. I will be installing it at http://www.
computinghistory.org.uk/ tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation
will be able to see how computing was in the 'olden days'.
Regards to all,
Bryan.

Post by Mark Pizzolato
The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
Thanks Mark.
Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a
modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original. I thought that
the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes
"only in part". The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing"
prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into
the official release.
So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use
a modified init.sys. I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
paul

--
Skickat från min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. UrsÀkta min fåordighet.

[Paul Koning]

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine. It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
***@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES

Post by Paul Koning

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine. It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

Can confirm that. BITXOT is running 24x7 and idles nicely.

[Mark Pizzolato]

Post by Johnny Billquist
Do you know what the problem was in detail?
I think my problem was that I had put my EXPECT commands after
the boot (where they occur in the start dialogue) but they need to be
set up beforehand.

Absolutely true. When using simh’s EXPECT & SEND you’ve got to
declare the prompts you want to match before the simulated system is
running so the simulation framework has a clue what you want to
achieve.

Post by Johnny Billquist
When using EXPECT commands, you have to PRECISELY specify what is
being matched.  There is a difference between “<Yes>” and “<YES> “.

Previously his EXPECT command had:

EXPECT "Proceed with system startup? <Yes>"

While the correct match string has:

EXPECT "Proceed with system startup? <YES> "

- Mark

[Jordi Guillaumes i Pons]

Bryan, the lines I wrote in my previous mail are not part of an EXPECT script, but SIMH commands which are intended to be put in the simulator ini file. Those specific lines work with RSTS 11, if you are going to run a different version you should modify them accordingly.

To start my simulators I use a shell script which runs GNU screen and launches each simulator in its own screen ‘window’. In the case of RSTS and TOPS-10, the simulator ini files (pdp11.ini and pdp10.ini) contain the EXPECT and SEND commands necessary to boot the operating systems (the rest of OSs don’t usually need any interaction at boot time).

Jordi Guillaumes Pons

Many thanks to all for the advice. Unfortunately I'm still not quite there.
I have written an Expect script which runs Simh and sure enough responds to the startup prompts. Unfortunately after it completes the terminal isn't interactive anymore. Oddly it still echoes characters to the screen but with no response - either from RSTS or Rasbian. If I open another Terminal, PS shows me the pdp11 emulator running as another process but tty1 is stuck in bash.
I have included a fork and disconnect at the end of the script as suggested but to no effect.
Expect commands don't seem to work within Simh. Should they?

Post by Mark Pizzolato
Hi,
I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like to extend our mini-computer exhibit. We want to set up a VT100 running RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I need it to boot up RSTS from power up.
I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the serial port ttyAMA0.
While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually, RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc) which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login. I have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that 'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to the terminal after the script ends.
Can anyone advise how to do it?

_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
***@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES

Many thanks for your help Jordi, but I'm afraid I'm still struggling.
I have installed V 4.0-0 of Simh and it now supports EXPECT. I have put the EXPECT and SEND commands into pdp11.ini but it still doesn't get past the 'Option:' prompt.
Here I would normally enter a LF (although ST works, it then asks some supplementary questions) but either way it stops. I would like to use your example but in order to do so I need a later version RSTS as the start dialogue is different. Mine is V7 which I got from trailing-edge. May I ask where you obtained your later version from please?

To be honest, I don’t remember. I’ve been running it for years :( IIRC I found it in a site which is fully dedicated to RSTS.

I’ll try to get version 7 and try your script, but I’ll need some time to do that.

[David Wijnants]

There is a V10.1 at this address:

http://www.retrocomputingtasmania.com/files

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
Many thanks for your help Jordi, but I'm afraid I'm still struggling.
I have installed V 4.0-0 of Simh and it now supports EXPECT. I have put
the EXPECT and SEND commands into pdp11.ini but it still doesn't get past
the 'Option:' prompt.
Here I would normally enter a LF (although ST works, it then asks some
supplementary questions) but either way it stops. I would like to use
your example but in order to do so I need a later version RSTS as the start
dialogue is different. Mine is V7 which I got from trailing-edge. May
I ask where you obtained your later version from please?
To be honest, I don’t remember. I’ve been running it for years :( IIRC I
found it in a site which is fully dedicated to RSTS.
I’ll try to get version 7 and try your script, but I’ll need some time to
do that.
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Quentin North]

Hi Bryan

You need to install simh v4 from source on GitHub.

Go to https://github.com/simh/simh <https://github.com/simh/simh>

Download a source zip file using the download button on your host (or download and transfer to host as necessary)

unzip the source into a directory on your host.

you will need gcc and dev-tools on your host for the next bits:

cd simh (the director you unzipped simh into)
make pdp11

once done, the new binary is at simh/BIN/pdp11

You should now be able to execute pdp11 and use the new script commands.

Quentin

Thanks. I just tried sudo apt-get install simh and it tells me that I am on the latest version (3.8.1-5) . Is there a newer one, and if so how do I install it?
Hi Bryan
You need to be on the latest SIMH for expect/send to work within SIMH scripts. Below is an example of how it can be used to boot an HP Access system, which has two processors that need to communicate with each other and it sets the date an time during the boot. Look in particular at the lines that say things like 'go until “EXPRESSION”’ and 'reply “REPLY"'. Hat tip to David Bryan for this script.
; 2000 Access System Processor Execution Command File
;
;
; This command file loads the 2000 Access operating system into the System
;
; hp2100 sp <cpu>
;
; ...where <cpu> is "2100" or one of "21MX/21MX-E/1000-M/1000-E".
;
; As part of the system startup process, this file loads and runs the IOP using
; the "iop.sim" command file. It also uses the "sleep" external command to
; provide proper synchronization.
;
; The <cpu> parameter determines both the CPU setting and the IOP tape used to
; load the I/O Processor. If "2100" is specified, then the 2100 CPU and 2100
; IOP tape are used. If anything else is specified, then the 21MX IOP tape is
; used, and the CPU is set to the parameter verbatim.
;
; This file boots the system stored on the "ACCESS-<cpu>.7905.disc" image.
; Validate the processor parameter.
if "%1" == "" echo Must specify the processor parameter.
if "%1" == "" exit
; Ensure that we can pick up the executable path.
if "%SIM_BIN_PATH%" == "" echo Must use a newer simulator version (10/25/17 or later).
if "%SIM_BIN_PATH%" == "" exit
; Capture the operating system console log.
set -n console log=sp-%1.log
; Output the usage notes.
;
; The Telnet standard requires CR to be followed by LF or NUL. The QCTerm
; terminal emulator does not comply with this requirement; with AUTO LF turned
; off, it sends just a CR. SIMH complies with the standard and discards a LF or
; NULL following a CR, but this means that the TSB speed-sense input of CR LF
; (or CTRL+M CTRL+J) won't work. The workaround is to do CR LF LF or turn AUTO
; LF on, press ENTER, and then turn it off again (QCTerm sends CR NUL LF when
; AUTO LF is on).
echo
echo
echo The A001 password is "A001".
echo For QCTerm sessions, type "CR LF LF" for PLEASE LOG IN.
echo
echo
; Configure the CPU.
if "%1" == "2100" set CPU %1,32K,FP
if "%1" != "2100" set CPU %1,32K
; Configure the I/O card cage.
set IPLI SC=10
set TTY SC=12
set TBG SC=13
set DS SC=14
set MSD SC=16
; Configure the simulation environment.
set IPLI ENABLED
set PTR DISABLED
set PTP DISABLED
set LPT DISABLED
set BACI DISABLED
set MPX DISABLED
set DPD DISABLED
set DRD DISABLED
set MTD DISABLED
set PIF DISABLED
set DS0 7905
set MSC 13183
if "%SIM_MAJOR%" == "3" break after=50000
if "%SIM_MAJOR%" != "3" expect haltafter=50000; set env reply=send
; Connect the Processor Interconnect cables.
attach -L IPLI 4020
attach -L IPLO 4021
; Load and start the IOP.
;
; Attach the configured tape for the specified processor.
if "%1" == "2100" attach -E MSC0 IOPGEN-2100.tape
if "%1" != "2100" attach -E MSC0 IOPGEN-21MX.tape
; Load the IOP cross-loader.
boot MSC0
assert T=102077
; Start the IOP cross-loader.
deposit P 002000
go until "START IOP PROTECTED LOADER. PRESS RETURN "
echo
; Start the IOP to receive the program.
;
; The IOP command file is run with the -E switch to cause execution to continue
; after errors. An "I/O Error" occurs when the SP exits and the IPL connection
; is broken. We want the command file to continue to exit the IOP instance
; automatically.
if "%SIM_MAJOR%" == "3" ! %SIM_BIN_PATH% -E ciop %1 &
if "%SIM_MAJOR%" != "3" ! %SIM_BIN_PATH% ciop %1 &
;; Connect the Processor Interconnect cables.
;
;attach -L IPLI 4020
;attach -LW IPLO 4021
; Wait for the IOP.
echo Waiting for the IOP...
set ipli wait
echo Wait complete.
; Reply to "START IOP PROTECTED LOADER. PRESS RETURN "
;
; Expect a halt 102077 when the IOP has been loaded.
reply "\r"
go
assert T=102077
; Wait for the IOP to start and initialize.
echo Waiting for the IOP...
set ipli wait
echo Wait complete.
; The IOP is now up and running.
;
;; We must delay here to allow the IOP time to initialize before staring the SP.
;
; ! sleep 1
; Attach the TSB system disc.
attach -E DS0 SPGEN-%1.7905.disc
; If the IOP is tracing, it will start up more slowly than otherwise. The IOP
; must initialize before the SP is started. Therefore, the following "sleep"
; command is required only if IOP tracing is enabled.
; ! sleep 5
; Start a multiplexer terminal session (for convenience).
; ! start E:\Simulation\QCTerm\qcterm.exe F:\Simulation\HP 700\Config\mux.qct
; Boot the system from the disc.
;
; Expect halt 102077 for a successful load.
deposit S 000000
boot DS0
assert T=102077
; Set up simulator tracing.
;
; set -n debug sp-trace.log
; set ipli debug
; set iplo debug
; Start the system.
;set throttle 30%
go until "COMMANDS?" ; reply "NO\r"
go until "DATE?" ; reply "%DATE_JJJ%/%DATE_YY%\r"
go until "TIME?" ; reply "%TIME_HH%%TIME_MM%\r"
; The system responds with "HP22687A-<datecode>". The halt delay is enough
; to permit the datecode and trailing CR LF to be output before the simulator
; stops. This means that we do not need to match the datecode explicitly.
;
; Now SLEEP the system.
;
; Expect halt 102077 for successful system shutdown.
; go until "\r\n" ; reply "SLEEP\r"
; go until "SYSTEM DUMP OR RELOAD? " ; reply "NO\r"
go
; assert T=102077
exit

Many thanks to all for the advice. Unfortunately I'm still not quite there.
I have written an Expect script which runs Simh and sure enough responds to the startup prompts. Unfortunately after it completes the terminal isn't interactive anymore. Oddly it still echoes characters to the screen but with no response - either from RSTS or Rasbian. If I open another Terminal, PS shows me the pdp11 emulator running as another process but tty1 is stuck in bash.
I have included a fork and disconnect at the end of the script as suggested but to no effect.
Expect commands don't seem to work within Simh. Should they?
Hi,
I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like to extend our mini-computer exhibit. We want to set up a VT100 running RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I need it to boot up RSTS from power up.
I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the serial port ttyAMA0.
While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually, RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc) which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login. I have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that 'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to the terminal after the script ends.
Can anyone advise how to do it?
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>

[khandy21yo]

Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul

[Bryan Davies]

Ok. It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much
indistinguishable from the real thing.

I'm now looking for something to run on it. iirc the old RSTS
distributions came with a games account - [20,20] or something like that,
but the V10 distribution doesn't have this. It only has the [1,2]
utilities.

Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software?
I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for
Simh to load them as a disk? Or is there another way to point one of the
emulated devices to a file on the host?

BTW I don't really want Adventure as we have that running on a MicroVAX.

Rgds

Bryan

Post by khandy21yo
Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A
couple of vacuum cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also -

with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation
does?

Post by Johnny Billquist
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine. It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).
paul
_______________________________________________
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http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Paul Koning]

Ok. It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing.
I'm now looking for something to run on it. iirc the old RSTS distributions came with a games account - [20,20] or something like that, but the V10 distribution doesn't have this. It only has the [1,2] utilities.
Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software? I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for Simh to load them as a disk? Or is there another way to point one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?

You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be online somewhere. I'm not sure where. That will have assorted games as well as other stuff. For example, there's a program package called COSAP which is a collection of statistical analysis tools. That came from my alma mater, and was used there particularly in sociology courses for the students to do (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey databases. It was known for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on our machine.

paul

[Bryan Davies]

Yes I've found a few, but they are mostly .sav or .bas files.

How do I get them into Simh without keying them though?

Post by Bryan Davies

Post by Bryan Davies
Ok. It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much

indistinguishable from the real thing.

Post by Bryan Davies
I'm now looking for something to run on it. iirc the old RSTS

distributions came with a games account - [20,20] or something like that,
but the V10 distribution doesn't have this. It only has the [1,2]
utilities.

Post by Bryan Davies
Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting

software? I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format
in order for Simh to load them as a disk? Or is there another way to point
one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?
You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be
online somewhere. I'm not sure where. That will have assorted games as
well as other stuff. For example, there's a program package called COSAP
which is a collection of statistical analysis tools. That came from my
alma mater, and was used there particularly in sociology courses for the
students to do (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey
databases. It was known for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on
our machine.
paul

[Paul Koning]

SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.

There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.

Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)

paul

Post by Bryan Davies
Yes I've found a few, but they are mostly .sav or .bas files.
How do I get them into Simh without keying them though?

Ok. It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing.
I'm now looking for something to run on it. iirc the old RSTS distributions came with a games account - [20,20] or something like that, but the V10 distribution doesn't have this. It only has the [1,2] utilities.
Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software? I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for Simh to load them as a disk? Or is there another way to point one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?

You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be online somewhere. I'm not sure where. That will have assorted games as well as other stuff. For example, there's a program package called COSAP which is a collection of statistical analysis tools. That came from my alma mater, and was used there particularly in sociology courses for the students to do (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey databases. It was known for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on our machine.
paul

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
***@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES

Post by Paul Koning
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)

There’s always kermit


[Bryan Davies]

But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper
tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as
good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a
program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's
easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's
documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug
reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
There’s always kermit


[Clem Cole]

You tried to get it from someone else for your system often
PaperTape/Floppy/MagTape as Paul described.
By many times connecting the terminal to another system and 'printing' it.
Often a glass TTY had a second 'printer port' and if you did some work, you
could type it out. Truth is it was probably a boot strap. You typed in
something that was a subset, maybe just a file transfer.

Many Kermits were hacks from a different one from a different version.
This was true until ckermit appeared, which was fairly late in Kermit's
life, but was the fanciest. Then people started to create versions of
ckermit for specific systems. They would use the older (like functional
one) to bring over the newer one.

Clem
ᐧ

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper
tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as
good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a
program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's
easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's
documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug
reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
There’s always kermit


_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Tim Shoppa]

In the “olden days”, by floppy, tape, or paper tape. In most cases you could order the media through Kermit project at Columbia University. In the case of PDP-11s, Sometimes rolled in with DECUS SIG tape trees.

Tim N3QE

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES

Post by Paul Koning
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)

There’s always kermit


_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Mark Abene]

I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.
That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.

-Mark

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper
tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as
good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a
program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's
easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's
documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug
reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
There’s always kermit


_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Christian Brunschen]

Post by Mark Abene
I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.

The correct tense actually seems to be "has":

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html

Post by Mark Abene
Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini- or
microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device control to
general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit programs are
available for the PDP-11.
*Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation
PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC
OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of
Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11.
Separate programs, listed below, are available for other PDP-11 operating
systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/> in the kermit/b
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/> subdirectory as k11*.mac, and you
can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems and configurations
inkermit/bin/ <ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/bin/>, as k11*.tsk or
k11*.sav. If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
THIS <http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftphlp.html>. There are also various
utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11, Fortran,
and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with all the Kermit-11 text
files, whose names all start with "k11".

:)

Post by Mark Abene
That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.

So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!

Post by Mark Abene
-Mark

// Christian

Post by Mark Abene

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper
tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as
good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a
program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's
easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's
documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug
reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
There’s always kermit


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[Bryan Davies]

That's all handy information. When I've done it I'll make a DSK file so
others can mount it directly into Simh.

Bryan

Post by Christian Brunschen

Post by Mark Abene
I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html

Post by Mark Abene
Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini- or
microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device control to
general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit programs are
available for the PDP-11.
*Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation
PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC
OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of
Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11.
Separate programs, listed below, are available for other PDP-11 operating
systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/> in the kermit/b
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/> subdirectory as k11*.mac, and you
can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems and configurations
inkermit/bin/ <ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/bin/>, as k11*.tsk or
k11*.sav. If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
THIS <http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftphlp.html>. There are also
various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11,
Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with all the
Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".

:)

Post by Mark Abene
That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.

So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!

Post by Mark Abene
-Mark

// Christian

Post by Mark Abene

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via paper
tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. That's not as
good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you have a
program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows. That's
easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
this. There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
3. For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's
documentation for both in those respective directories. (Commments and bug
reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
There’s always kermit


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[Bob Eager]

If you know how to handle magtapes on RSTS, you can make a tape image.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 21:43:03 +0000

Post by Bryan Davies
That's all handy information. When I've done it I'll make a DSK file
so others can mount it directly into Simh.
Bryan

Post by Christian Brunschen

Post by Mark Abene
I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you
could either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an
editor.

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html

Post by Mark Abene
Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini-
or microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device
control to general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit
programs are available for the PDP-11.
*Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment
Corporation PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS,
P/OS, and (not a DEC OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian
Nelson of the University of Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11
assembly language, Macro-11. Separate programs, listed below, are
available for other PDP-11 operating systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/> in the kermit/b
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/> subdirectory as k11*.mac,
and you can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems
and configurations inkermit/bin/
<ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/bin/>, as k11*.tsk or k11*.sav.
If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
THIS <http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftphlp.html>. There are also
various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written
Macro-11, Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with
all the Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".

:)

Post by Mark Abene
That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.

So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!

Post by Mark Abene
-Mark

// Christian

Post by Mark Abene
On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <

Post by Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format). BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions. Text files you could load via
paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape
reader. That's not as good an answer for binaries though it
could be made to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions. Disk works well if you
have a program that can write disk images in a format the target
OS knows. That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS
File Exchange) program to do this. There's an older version
written in C, a newer one written in Python 3. For the former,
look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the
latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk. There's
documentation for both in those respective directories.
(Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version,
would be appreciated.)
There?s always kermit?

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Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Johnny Billquist]

Post by Bryan Davies
But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?

Kermit comes in source form. Text is easier to transfer. Kermit-11 also
exists as a binary encoded in a very simple format as text, and then you
have a very simple decoding program which recreates the binary from that.
All available if you check in the Kermit distribution.

Johnny

Post by Bryan Davies
On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES

SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via
paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.
That's not as good an answer for binaries though it could be made
to work.
Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have
a program that can write disk images in a format the target OS
knows.  That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File
Exchange) program to do this.  There's an older version written in
C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For the former, look in
svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the latter, in
svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for
both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports,
especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)

There’s always kermit…
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[Johnny Billquist]

Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much
indistinguishable from the real thing.

Should be. :-)

I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS
distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like
that,  but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the
[1,2] utilities.

[66,66] is what I remember from back in the day when I was using RSTS/E.
But if that was "official" in any way I don't know.
You can always download lots of stuff from the internet otherwise.
Bitsavers for example. I have lots of RSX stuff around, some of that
should work on RSTS/E as well. And there is plenty of RT-11 stuff
around, which should also work fine on RSTS/E.

Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting
software?  I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK
format in order for Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another
way to point one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?

Kermit? DECnet?

BTW I don't really want Adventure as we have that running on a MicroVAX.

You should have both Adventure and Dungeon, of course...

And if anyone could take some time to check what is needed to get ZEMU
running on RSTS/E, then you'd have essentially all Infocom games, as
well as anything written in Inform.
(ZEMU works fine on RSX and RT-11 today.)

Johnny

Rgds
Bryan
Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created.
A couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail?

Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the
simulation does?

Post by Johnny Billquist
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far
back as V4).
paul
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[Brett Bump]

More likely a couple of hair dryers (set on low heat) would be better. ;-)

The air conditioning in our college science building worked so well I used
to pull the front of the 11/20 (and also the box of memory below it) out
so that it could blow the heat across my cold legs while I wrote programs
on an LA36 in my summer shorts.

Post by khandy21yo
Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).
paul
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[Johnny Billquist]

Post by khandy21yo
Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A
couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?

If we're talking a PDP-11/70, three vacuum cleaners won't come close.

Johnny

Post by khandy21yo
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Post by Johnny Billquist
Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also

- with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the
simulation does?

Post by Johnny Billquist
And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back
as V4).
paul
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