[Simh] DIY microfiche scanner?

[Tim Stark]

Folks,



I recently noticed that you recently talked about DIY scanning for
documents. Does anyone have DIY techniques about microfiche scanning?



Thanks,

Tim

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:05:06 -0500

Post by Tim Stark
I recently noticed that you recently talked about DIY scanning for
documents. Does anyone have DIY techniques about microfiche
scanning?

I'd love to know. At the moment I have a large microfiche reader which
is taking up far too much space. Got that from eBay.

[Mattis Lind]

Post by Bob Eager
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:05:06 -0500

Post by Tim Stark
I recently noticed that you recently talked about DIY scanning for
documents. Does anyone have DIY techniques about microfiche scanning?

I'd love to know. At the moment I have a large microfiche reader which
is taking up far too much space. Got that from eBay.

I am also interested in this topic. I was recently given a huge number of
microfiche by a nice gentleman. Thanks Mike! DEC Tech manuals, Diag
listings, IPBs etc etc. In order 5000-10000 fiches in three blue steel
boxes.

I had an idea of making a catalogue of available fiches. I started of
taking a picture of them just for the purpose of be able to write down the
information later on (Just the tech manuals are approx 1300 fiches:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8cgznonlixavlsx/AABQI2-sQuxcqBO1dHcAFMUga?dl=0).
Then this information can be shared and those documents that are not
available can be scanned at a later stage. I simply don't see any point in
scanning them all (if I had a scanner that is) since many documents are
already online.

But the sheer number of fiche already tell me this is not feasible to do
this manually. I need some kind of automatic method of doing this.

I was thinking some kind of pipeline of steps that takes the image and
converts it to a database entry or spreadsheet row. Identify fiche outline,
Straighten it up. Identify text locations. Do OCR. Identify type of text
based on text contents etc.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c_8TFNDkPd8poigdbuJiohDod5Z08ifpD9lqXNRPMeA

I have recognized a couple of different fonts used and the font size varies
slightly. The positions are relatively fixed. The position of the date and
Copyright year and format varies a bit though.

Anyone did something similar? Ideas? Useful software to use?

/Mattis

Post by Bob Eager
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[Rhialto]

Post by Mattis Lind
I am also interested in this topic. I was recently given a huge number of
microfiche by a nice gentleman. Thanks Mike! DEC Tech manuals, Diag
listings, IPBs etc etc. In order 5000-10000 fiches in three blue steel
boxes.

I remember reading a discussion on some forum, or maybe some series of
blog posts, about somebody in just your position.

The person set up some motorized moving of the microfiches, and bought
some two DSLR cameras to photograph the screen of the viewer. He needed
more than one camera, because the number of pages was greater than the
number of photos the DSLR was rated for.

Now if only I could find it again...

-Olaf.

[Al Kossow]

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-24206.html

Post by Rhialto

Post by Mattis Lind
I am also interested in this topic. I was recently given a huge number of
microfiche by a nice gentleman. Thanks Mike! DEC Tech manuals, Diag
listings, IPBs etc etc. In order 5000-10000 fiches in three blue steel
boxes.

I remember reading a discussion on some forum, or maybe some series of
blog posts, about somebody in just your position.
The person set up some motorized moving of the microfiches, and bought
some two DSLR cameras to photograph the screen of the viewer. He needed
more than one camera, because the number of pages was greater than the
number of photos the DSLR was rated for.
Now if only I could find it again...
-Olaf.
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Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Jörg Hoppe]

Post by Rhialto
I remember reading a discussion on some forum, or maybe some series of
blog posts, about somebody in just your position.
The person set up some motorized moving of the microfiches, and bought
some two DSLR cameras to photograph the screen of the viewer. He needed
more than one camera, because the number of pages was greater than the
number of photos the DSLR was rated for.
Now if only I could find it again...

Perhaps you are talking of me ?
Here: http://retrocmp.com/projects/scanning-micro-fiches

best,
Joerg

[SPC]

Perhaps I could obtain one Canon Reader which came with some sort of
printer/xerocopier. Very BIG and operative state unknown.

Gracias | Regards - Saludos | Greetings | Freundliche GrÌße | Salutations
​
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twitter: @sergio_pedraja | skype: Sergio Pedraja
--
http://plus.google.com/u/0/101292256663392735405
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sergiopedraja
http://spedraja.wordpress.com
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No crea todo lo que ve, ni crea que está viéndolo todo
-----
"El estado de una Copia de Seguridad es desconocido
hasta que intentas restaurarla" (- nixCraft)

Post by Jörg Hoppe

Post by Rhialto
I remember reading a discussion on some forum, or maybe some series of

Post by Rhialto
blog posts, about somebody in just your position.
The person set up some motorized moving of the microfiches, and bought
some two DSLR cameras to photograph the screen of the viewer. He needed
more than one camera, because the number of pages was greater than the
number of photos the DSLR was rated for.
Now if only I could find it again...

Perhaps you are talking of me ?

Here: http://retrocmp.com/projects/scanning-micro-fiches
best,
Joerg
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Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Al Kossow]

Perhaps I could obtain one Canon Reader which came with some sort of printer/xerocopier.

You are better off finding a library with a fiche scanner.

Fiche printers are just a time sink.

Expect your processing rates to be a page per minute at best, which doesn't scale.

You'll spend a whole day fiddling around to scan one sheet of fiche.

This is where all the scanning projects in the past have failed. You need to think
how to process HUNDREDS of sheets of fiche, not just one.

About the only good news is almost all the listing fiche were COM (computer output to microform)
so the quality is consistent. Paper manuals that were copied to fiche are generally pretty
poor, especially any drawings. They also have inconsistent frame sizes, making them impossible to
scan on step and repeat scanners.

[Rhialto]

Post by Jörg Hoppe

Post by Rhialto
I remember reading a discussion on some forum, or maybe some series of
blog posts, about somebody in just your position.
The person set up some motorized moving of the microfiches, and bought
some two DSLR cameras to photograph the screen of the viewer. He needed
more than one camera, because the number of pages was greater than the
number of photos the DSLR was rated for.
Now if only I could find it again...

Perhaps you are talking of me ?
Here: http://retrocmp.com/projects/scanning-micro-fiches

Yes! I think it was that one!

Post by Jörg Hoppe
best,
Joerg

-Olaf.

[Sergii Kolisnyk]

Hi all,

why do you need something special instead of a common office photo scanner
with full-frame backlight?
Isn't 4800x9600 DPI just enough? It equals to 192x384 DPI for the paper
media. For example, HP G4050 has full-frame backlight.

Best regards,
Sergii

Post by Bob Eager
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:05:06 -0500

Post by Tim Stark
I recently noticed that you recently talked about DIY scanning for
documents. Does anyone have DIY techniques about microfiche scanning?

I'd love to know. At the moment I have a large microfiche reader which
is taking up far too much space. Got that from eBay.
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Al Kossow]

Post by Sergii Kolisnyk
Isn't 4800x9600 DPI just enough?

No

read the thread I just posted

DEC crammed a lot of frames on a fiche sheet

[Sergii Kolisnyk]

Post by Sergii Kolisnyk
Isn't 4800x9600 DPI just enough?

No

read the thread I just posted



The thread says:
As you can see from 1ajs's 4800dpi example, even these could "nearly do".

Also I think saving uncompressed 9600 DPI from 4800x9600 scanner may be
much better.

Could it be tried?

I've calculated fiche DPI for posted DEC images (TA11 bootstrap), it's
about 3200.
1110*16/5.75 = 3089 DPI
You can add a few percents for margins.



DEC crammed a lot of frames on a fiche sheet

[Sergii Kolisnyk]

On Feb 25, 2018 01:39, "Sergii Kolisnyk" <***@gmail.com> wrote:


The thread says:
As you can see from 1ajs's 4800dpi example, even these could "nearly do".

Also I think saving uncompressed 9600 DPI from 4800x9600 scanner may be
much better.

Could it be tried?

I've calculated fiche DPI for posted DEC images (TA11 bootstrap), it's
about 3200.
1110*16/5.75 = 3089 DPI

Vertical:
940*13/4 = 3055 DPI

You can add a few percents for margins.



DEC crammed a lot of frames on a fiche sheet

[Tim Stark]

Ok, thanks for some replies. I have CanonScan 9000F Mark II flatbed. It have optical 9600 dpi CMOS sensor with interpolation up to 19,200 dpi. Also, I will try HD microscope camera (40x to 1000x) someday. I have backlight pad for scanning.



I have some fiche films for technical manuals which are not in Bitsavers yet like DECserver 200 tm, CI 780 tm, etc. When I have scanned docs, I will send them to bitsavers. They can be useful for developing emulators.



I read Al’s links (vintage computing forum), I was surprised to notice a lot of fiches about VMS sources.



I was trying to find Avanti technical manuals (AS200/400) but found separately technical manuals like CPU, PCI chip, etc. because Alpha servers are based on PC architecture.



Tim



From: Simh [mailto:simh-***@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Sergii Kolisnyk
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 6:39 PM
To: simh <***@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] DIY microfiche scanner?

Post by Sergii Kolisnyk
Isn't 4800x9600 DPI just enough?

No

read the thread I just posted





The thread says:

As you can see from 1ajs's 4800dpi example, even these could "nearly do".



Also I think saving uncompressed 9600 DPI from 4800x9600 scanner may be much better.



Could it be tried?



I've calculated fiche DPI for posted DEC images (TA11 bootstrap), it's about 3200.

1110*16/5.75 = 3089 DPI

You can add a few percents for margins.





DEC crammed a lot of frames on a fiche sheet

[Richard]

Post by Tim Stark
I have some fiche films for technical manuals which are not in Bitsavers
yet like DECserver 200 tm, CI 780 tm, etc. When I have scanned docs, I
will send them to bitsavers. They can be useful for developing emulators.

Yes, DECserver 200 TM would be nice :)

[Robert Armstrong]

Post by Richard
Yes, DECserver 200 TM would be nice :)

The DS200 is a 68000 based box, right? Does the source code for the load image exist somewhere?

Bob

[Johnny Billquist]

Post by Robert Armstrong

Post by Richard
Yes, DECserver 200 TM would be nice :)

The DS200 is a 68000 based box, right? Does the source code for the load image exist somewhere?

Yeah, it's 68K based.
I have not seen the source anywhere. But DEC sold that business as well,
and that firmware might have been among the things transferred. They
continued doing stuff for quite a while. Not sure if they are still in
business. (And I don't remember the name of the company who took the
terminal servers over.)

Johnny

[Paul Koning]

Post by Johnny Billquist

Post by Robert Armstrong

Post by Richard
Yes, DECserver 200 TM would be nice :)

The DS200 is a 68000 based box, right? Does the source code for the load image exist somewhere?

Yeah, it's 68K based.
I have not seen the source anywhere. But DEC sold that business as well, and that firmware might have been among the things transferred. They continued doing stuff for quite a while. Not sure if they are still in business. (And I don't remember the name of the company who took the terminal servers over.)

Cabletron, maybe? They got much of DEC's network stuff. One of the least favorite companies around here because of how it dealt with employees.

paul

[Johnny Billquist]

Post by Paul Koning

Post by Johnny Billquist

Post by Robert Armstrong

Post by Richard
Yes, DECserver 200 TM would be nice :)

The DS200 is a 68000 based box, right? Does the source code for the load image exist somewhere?

Yeah, it's 68K based.
I have not seen the source anywhere. But DEC sold that business as well, and that firmware might have been among the things transferred. They continued doing stuff for quite a while. Not sure if they are still in business. (And I don't remember the name of the company who took the terminal servers over.)

Cabletron, maybe? They got much of DEC's network stuff. One of the least favorite companies around here because of how it dealt with employees.

Look what you did. Now you made me look it up. :-)
So, yes. DEC sold it to Cabletron. Cabletron in turn spun the DECserver
business out to it's own company (to quote Wikipedia), called Digital
Networks.
That company now seems to operate under the name Vnetek Corp, but it
would appear they might now have stopped manufacturing DECservers.
Looking at the wayback machine, the information about the DECserver 716
(which was the last model they produced) was removed in fall 2017.

Johnny